multiple shocks

Posts from Jan. 1, 2018 to the present. Plus important announcements. (ICD warning sounds)

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jennifer
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Joined: October 12th, 2018, 1:05 pm

multiple shocks

Post by jennifer » October 12th, 2018, 2:37 pm

Has anyone exerienced multiple shocks, my device went off 7 times in the space of about 5 minutes, also I could see the flash under my skin and the shock was much more painful than I expected, is any of this normal? Advice,comments please

Leedur
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Joined: May 24th, 2015, 10:25 pm

Re: multiple shocks

Post by Leedur » October 12th, 2018, 4:02 pm

Welcome to the group. Assume you notified your doctor. They will be able to answer your question. Doesn't sound normal but could be it was saving you from cardiac arrest.

dick
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Joined: September 4th, 2013, 11:49 am

Re: multiple shocks

Post by dick » October 12th, 2018, 4:17 pm

The general guideline is 'more than 2 shocks in a 24 hour period" constitutes a "storm." Contact your doctor IMMEDIATELY. Given your experience, something ain't right.

You could "see a flash under your skin?" How did you do that? How long have you had your device? DO you have remote transmission equipment? If so, transmit now. Really could use a bit more background although bottom line is if I had a storm like yours, I would demand an immediate consultation with the installing EP or if he/she is not around then his/her lawyer.

jennifer
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Joined: October 12th, 2018, 1:05 pm

Re: multiple shocks

Post by jennifer » October 13th, 2018, 12:34 am

I have been in hospital for a week but didn't really get an explanation, they have increased the dose of bisoporol and suggested if it happens again ablation might be an option, I have a lot of scar tissue due to an aneurysm on the left ventricle. I have had the device for 6 years and this is the first time it has fired, it was terrifying.

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mykidsmom
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Re: multiple shocks

Post by mykidsmom » October 13th, 2018, 8:51 am

I had 22 shocks in the course of an afternoon..but continued my xmas shopping till i got the jesus jolt which knocked me to the ground...I didnt go to the hospital cos it was christmas eve but i should have..cos i ended up there the next day having keeled over with cardiac arrest..and had 3 more arrests thro the night..i felt the shocks.....but i didnt pay attention to them cos i figured they actually couldnt be shocks...i had this vision that all shocks would be like the jesus jolt as robo calls it...all the shocks were appropriate (meaning there was a reason for them...and it wasnt the icd misfiring...) I didnt see any flashes but then i wasnt looking for them i sorta doubt it anyways.. but it was funny...the first cardiac arrest the next day daughter #3 actually thought i was having a seizure....and she did what you never do with anyone having a seizure..put your hand into their mouth to make sure they dont bite their tongue......so when the icd fired...she got shocked....now the drs seem to be half and half on if this happens..some say it cant...some say it can....but my daughter says it happened....
I think.....Therefore I am.!!!!!

abas
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Joined: December 5th, 2014, 1:59 pm

Re: multiple shocks

Post by abas » October 13th, 2018, 3:39 pm

Maybe your daughter felt the shock but how can we be sure the shock came from you? Or am I being too much of a Republican there?

I would say your daughter is quite lucky she still has her fingers on that hand.

I wish Jennifer could add a bit more biographical data. Storms seem to be a rare occurrence these days. My own thought is she must be in some hospital in coal country with doctors that have never left the area for there education.

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Ozchrissy
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Re: multiple shocks

Post by Ozchrissy » October 13th, 2018, 8:39 pm

My first really memorable shock was 4 in a row. This of course scared me silly. Mind you I had been gardening prior to this and have moved a truck load of decorative rocks and pebbles into a garden bed, planted yuccas and other decorative plants. Came inside and then when resting, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG.

I was running around the house looking for the phone, now I have two handsets. So in between the shocks I went back into sinus rhythm, and then back into what I presume was VTAC, as I didn't pass out, which I do with VFib. It was explained to me that when we get shocked, it shocks us, and if we return to normal rhythm, then it resets itself, so if we go back into Vtac then it will go through the whole process again. One way I can visualise it is when you watch those ER shows and they often have to use those paddles more than once to fix the patient. They were all appropriate, and I was hospitalised, and put on that drug that starts with A, which I won't draw attention to, because I hate it, but was on it for about 3 weeks. They then put me on digoxin, and needless to say I was warned not to think I was superwoman and to leave the heavy lifting and heavy gardening to hired help or fit family.

I get 3 monthly interrogations and on each readout there is usually a few bouts of VT that are diverted by my device and my PVC counts are high. But I just accept that as what my device is there for, and as I very rarely know these are happening, I just give my angel a pat and say, good job.

Helen, thank goodness you didn't bite off your daughters fingers. I went through a stage with babies and little tackers that when I was cuddling them I was aware that if I 'fired', they could get the shock also. My shocks are more electrical, I actually feel them in the vicinity of the device itself, but I know they are acting on my heart, because of the interrogations and the readouts. I honestly believe your daughter got a shock, but not as bad as you would have felt. As usual the medical profession knows more about what happened to you that you or your daughter who actually experienced it happen. Would love these people to actually have the same things happen to them.
“I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become.” Carl Jung

Diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in 10/99
LBBB & VT diagnosed Feb 06
Guidant Biventricular Pacer ICD inserted Feb 06: Boston Scientific Incepta CRT-D inserted May, 2012
Oesophageal Cancer, 2012, Gall Bladder & Septicemia 2014 resulting in VFib and severe heart damage
Bare Metal Stent May, 2012 Mitral Valve replaced 2015
Meds: Entresto, Bicard, Coralan, Eurtorxsiq, Frusehexl, Spiractin, Sigmaxin, Creon, Warfarin,
Appropriate Shocks for Ventricular VFib.

InSync
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Re: multiple shocks

Post by InSync » October 14th, 2018, 3:00 pm

Welcome Jennifer! You're in the right place. I'm glad you found us.
There is a lot of experience here and lots of folks who are happy to offer you information and support.
I've had 3 shocks in about 20 minutes and it was definitely an unsettling experience.
Since you were hospitalized and your doc is talking ablation, I assume your shocks were appropriate. If you don't understand what the doc is telling you about the cause or the treatment, keep asking until you do. Give us more informaiton and it is likely that someone here will be able to help you understand.

If you haven't already, check out some of Sam Sears' publications. He is a cardiac psychologist and has done a lot of research and has a lot of insight. Best advice is keep talking. Come back to vent, to complain, to cry on our shoulders. We get it.

Best wishes to you!
Dilated Cardiomyopathy, LBBB, CHF
St. Jude CRT-D 5/12
The beat goes on.....

cpgal3246
Posts: 12
Joined: October 12th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Re: multiple shocks

Post by cpgal3246 » October 15th, 2018, 11:23 am

Has your doctor said anything about the shocks damaging your heart? I was told that each shock/Jesus jolt, whether appropriate or inappropriate, damages the heart and increases your risk for it firing again or death by 4X. Very scary stuff.

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mykidsmom
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Re: multiple shocks

Post by mykidsmom » October 15th, 2018, 11:28 am

I personally had absolutely no damage...in fact my cardiologist insisted on me having some tests because he was certain id had some internal damage that wasnt showing up......zippo....and although the shocks were scary and for a couple of months afterwards i went in fear of having a panic attack (cos i did have two and they terrified me more than the shocks) im glad i did have the shocks...cos now i know what to expect...and i know the icd did its job..worked well and saved my life..
I think.....Therefore I am.!!!!!

cpgal3246
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Joined: October 12th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Re: multiple shocks

Post by cpgal3246 » October 15th, 2018, 12:44 pm

I'm glad to hear you didn't have any damage from your ordeal. Out of the 22 shocks you had, how many were "Jesus jolts"? I assume the rest were smaller shocks from your device trying to get your heart back into rhythm? If that happened to me I think I would be so stressed out that I wouldn't be able to function!

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mykidsmom
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Re: multiple shocks

Post by mykidsmom » October 15th, 2018, 1:29 pm

I had one Jesus jolt..and actually i thought it was a bullet passing thro my chest...and i slipped to the ground throwing up lol.....i crawled out to my car...lay back for 20 mins or so..then went back in finished my shopping and drove home....but next day i dropped over in a cardiac arrest....no shocks till the icd fired to revive me....and it happened 3 more times that night...i thought it would have worn the battery out....but it still lasted a few years lol..i probably should have been stressed but i was too busy being stressed over christmas cos generally im organized and that year i was sick so wasnt..and the rush around xmas eve was when the shocks happened...
I think.....Therefore I am.!!!!!

cpgal3246
Posts: 12
Joined: October 12th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Re: multiple shocks

Post by cpgal3246 » October 15th, 2018, 1:47 pm

I can't believe you continued to shop after that Jesus Jolt!! You're a much braver person than me. What did the 20 or so smaller ones feel like? The next day when you had cardiac arrest and were shocked 3 more times that night were you unconscious ? You really do have a great attitude after all you've been through. I'm so afraid of getting shocked that I'm not sure I want to get the ICD implanted :-(

dick
Posts: 343
Joined: September 4th, 2013, 11:49 am

Re: multiple shocks

Post by dick » October 15th, 2018, 3:27 pm

I wonder if we may be confusing ourselves. My understanding is, a shock is a shock is a shock. 20J or 30J or 40J (joules) all feel the same. In the early days when Robo was a young man perhaps, a device could be set to issue a 20J shock the first time. If that didn't work the next shock would be 30J and if that didn't work, you would be hit with the max 40J. Note device makers vary on what the "max" is and the way they promote, but generally and relatively, 40J is peak. Eventually EPs came to the conclusion of why screw around. If you need a shock, use the max right away. Actually I just looked at my settings and it would seem I first get 31J but everything thereafter is 41J. Hmmn?

My summary thoughts:

All shocks feel the same. ATP is not a shock and feels altogether different.
I have no idea how "cardioversion" as in ICD implantable cardioverter defibrillator works (NB cardioverter)
In the past years, EPs have learned to raise shock thresh hold level. Something like shock at 230 BPM instead of 195.
Using the manufacturer settings (Medtronic, etc) is usually best-don't let EP "tweak" settings (they suck at it)
If therapy needed, immediately have device use higher power (40J) rather than starting low and eventually increasing
A Jesus Jolt is a Jesus Jolt. There are no partial ones even for the atheists among us. (think partially pregnant)
A shock does NOT extend to anyone holding, touching, kissing or otherwise connected to you at the time-despite reports to the contrary ;-)
Multiple shocks aka shock storm are becoming increasing rare. Consider a new (expert) EP, be pushy (pretend you voted for Trump)

Please feel quite free to challenge me on any of this, but please make sure your brain is engaged before doing so.

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ROBO Pop
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Re: multiple shocks

Post by ROBO Pop » October 15th, 2018, 5:35 pm

I'm impressed, Dick got it right, will miracles ever cease, a Jesus Jolt is a Jesus Jolt is a Jesus Jolt. Don't matter too much the juice, to the patient it feels the same and usually they go right for the gold first shot ie full juice. and a Cardioversion is a Jesus Jolt. That being said, there are some caveats. One being that I believe the amount of physical damage (scarring) to your heart can reduce the physical effect of a Jesus Jolt, ie less (painful).

The device paces your heart at a faster rate than the tachycardia and then stops. They can program the number of attempts before stopping or giving the big one. I never feel it when I get one, which is like a regular thing for me, but some people do just as they do when their pacing kicks in. It's just a light electrical stimulation and not an actual shock.

Manufacturer's say that someone in contact with your body, assuming bare skin, can get a slight tingling sensation when a device fires a full Jesus Jolt. I'm on the fence on this as your body is not a great conductor and that's a lot of material for the electrical current to go through. Dip in a pool of water and the chances improve for conduction through all those layers. fat people are better insulated.
Broken Heart
Nobody has ever survived life, but I'm trying...
My story and sticking to it
http://www.icdsupportgroup.org/board/vi ... 97&p=91375

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