Hoping someone knows the answer

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DovenaDBickford
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Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by DovenaDBickford » December 25th, 2014, 11:42 pm

Does anyone know what happens if one of us ICD patientswhere to get electrocuted by a home outlet? I'm pretty sure that's what happened and resulted in 15 rapid fire shocks until my battery went dead. I've tried to look online to see if there's any information, but I haven't found anything. Admit my brain is still a little scrambled from the repeated shocks so maybe my research skills aren't very good. Would really appreciate hearing from anyone even if its just to say hello. Thank you. P.S. I didn't know how to make the letters smaller so if they're great big, I'm sorry

dick
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by dick » December 25th, 2014, 11:59 pm

Leah?

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DovenaDBickford
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by DovenaDBickford » December 26th, 2014, 12:38 am

No. My name is Dovena. I posted questions after the first time I was hit with more than one shock in 2012. Fall 2012. I'm sorry but I'm not very familiar with the site andmy understanding isn't cooperating very well so it's taking me time to try and figure out how to postv
Tetralogy of Fallot (Blue Baby) @ Birth
Torsades de Pointes
Mitral Valve Prolapse
Marfan Syndrome
Severe Pectus Excavatum
Paroxysmal Atrial Tachycardia
Ablation 1999/00
Ventricular Tachy
Long QT Syndrome
ICD: Medtronic
"Storm" of 16 appropriate in Aug 2012
"Storm" of 15 inappropriate Dec '14 (wires?)
multiple single shocks, all appropriate
Heart Attacks - the first at age 11 (I'm 50)
High BP

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DovenaDBickford
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by DovenaDBickford » December 26th, 2014, 12:49 am

Please. Does anyone know what happens if one of us suffer an electrocution?I had just washed my hands and barely tapped the plug for the fan and I saw a blue travel from my hand into the outlet a matter of a split second before I started getting hit with my defibrillator. I did have the battery low warning in the mornings and had scheduled generator replacement but all the reports showed that it was just the generator replacement surgery scheduled but I got ill and couldn't have it done. All the tests showed that my wired was perfect.just a couple of days later I swear I was electrocuted and as a result my defib fired until the generator was totally dead and apparently fractured both wires. can anyone speak to this please!
Tetralogy of Fallot (Blue Baby) @ Birth
Torsades de Pointes
Mitral Valve Prolapse
Marfan Syndrome
Severe Pectus Excavatum
Paroxysmal Atrial Tachycardia
Ablation 1999/00
Ventricular Tachy
Long QT Syndrome
ICD: Medtronic
"Storm" of 16 appropriate in Aug 2012
"Storm" of 15 inappropriate Dec '14 (wires?)
multiple single shocks, all appropriate
Heart Attacks - the first at age 11 (I'm 50)
High BP

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DovenaDBickford
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Joined: September 17th, 2012, 1:55 pm
Location: Boise, Idaho USA

Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by DovenaDBickford » December 26th, 2014, 12:52 am

I must sound totally insane and absolutely desperate I'm not insane I am desperate. I would be grateful for anyone that can help me make sense of what happened. Please!
Tetralogy of Fallot (Blue Baby) @ Birth
Torsades de Pointes
Mitral Valve Prolapse
Marfan Syndrome
Severe Pectus Excavatum
Paroxysmal Atrial Tachycardia
Ablation 1999/00
Ventricular Tachy
Long QT Syndrome
ICD: Medtronic
"Storm" of 16 appropriate in Aug 2012
"Storm" of 15 inappropriate Dec '14 (wires?)
multiple single shocks, all appropriate
Heart Attacks - the first at age 11 (I'm 50)
High BP

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Ozchrissy
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by Ozchrissy » December 26th, 2014, 1:36 am

Hi Dovena, I am sorry that you only got Dick to respond earlier. I am from Australia so we are not all in bed yet. I would definitely go to the ER as if you have had multiple shocks, then you do need to be seen by someone who will be able to keep an eye on you. I am not sure about electrical shocks, but whatever the case, you do need to seek medical attention. As it is Christmas I would presume you are the same as us over here, and all our specialists, except in an emergency room, are on a break or at least not due back to work for a few days. So please go to emergency and they can check you out.
“I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become.” Carl Jung

Diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in 10/99
LBBB & VT diagnosed Feb 06
Guidant Biventricular Pacer ICD inserted Feb 06: Boston Scientific Incepta CRT-D inserted May, 2012
Oesophageal Cancer, 2012, Gall Bladder & Septicemia 2014 resulting in VFib and severe heart damage
Bare Metal Stent May, 2012 Mitral Valve replaced 2015
Meds: Entresto, Bicard, Coralan, Eurtorxsiq, Frusehexl, Spiractin, Sigmaxin, Creon, Warfarin,
Appropriate Shocks for Ventricular VFib.

tomrostron
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by tomrostron » December 26th, 2014, 7:19 am

Hi Dovena, it is very difficult for most of us on here to answer your question. You need to have your icd intorragated, either by carelink monitor, or going to the hospital. best wishes. Joe.

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freckles1880
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by freckles1880 » December 26th, 2014, 8:58 am

Dovena, I agree that you need to go in and get the interrogation. With multiple shocks you should go to the ER. As far as the outlet giving them to you, I don't know. Many of us get static electricity and will have a "blue" flame (lightning bolt) go from our bodies to an outlet. I am one who has a lot in my system when the humidity is up. My EP said it is NOT an issue. BUT, there may be a short in your wall outlet causing the issue. First have your ICD checked out then, if necessary the outlet.

Please let us know what they say.

wavhi
Bob

Medtronic-Visia AF implanted 7-8-2016 stayed with the with 6947 Sprint Quattro Secure lead. Original ICD implant 2-4-2009. ICD turned off 10-6-17 as stage 4 lung cancer taking over.
Major heart attack, carcinogenic shock and quad bypass 10-13-08 post myocardial infarction, old inferior MI complicated by shock and CHF, combined, Atherosclerosis, abdominal aortic Aneurysm, Seroma 7 cm, left leg. Stent in the left main vein 10-7-2014

My "Wardens" are my bride of 54+ years and my daughters.

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mrag
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by mrag » December 26th, 2014, 9:44 am

....ICD patients where to get electrocuted by a home outlet? I'm pretty sure that's what happened and resulted in 15 rapid fire shocks until my battery went dead.
IF you did receive 15 therapies aka shocks from your ICD AND your battery is "dead," "run, don't walk" to the nearest emergency room. Your device cannot protect you if it has no power and the standard rule is: "2 or more shocks within 24 hours-go to an ER."

You might also want to call in an electrician to check the outlet where you believe the shock originated. Static electricity to individuals is rare for water or other humid conditions. The other point to consider is if it is a faulty electrical outlet, your home could burn down which could possibly put a damper on your holiday.

Maybe you want to go into further detail on just what happened and where in the house? I have this feeling you received a plain old electrical shock somehow from a wall outlet and it felt worse than it is. 15 therapeutic shocks should not normally deplete a battery and even if so, your device should be giving you quiet warning sounds as an alert.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking

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Suzanne
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by Suzanne » December 26th, 2014, 10:07 am

Hi Dovena. I'm sorry that you were shocked by both the outlet and your deice. It must have been terrifying.

When you had your device checked, what was their explanation for your numerous shocks? Did they say your shocks were appropriate, inappropriate..??

Where do you live, as in was the voltage 110 or 220? Not that that might make a difference, I'm just curious.

If your device was due for replacement, I think it certainly is possible that those 15 shocks depleted your battery.

What was their explanation for both your wires being fractured?

Ask/demand an explanation, so you can try to understand what happened. Ask to speak to a device technician, rather than a nurse. Hopefully he/she will give you a better explanation as to what happened. You know what happened to you, you need answers to understand why it happened.
~ Suzanne ~

St Jude ICD and Lead Implanted Feb.20/09
8 Shock Storm March 21/09
Lead Dislodged, so Replaced with Medtronic Lead June 16/09
ICD and Lead Explanted Nov.23/09
Medtronic Reveal XT (Cardiac Monitor) Implanted Jan.25/10...explanted and new one reinserted on July 21/11

Cardiac Monitor explanted Sept.9/14

InSync
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by InSync » December 26th, 2014, 10:53 am

If my doc sent me home with a dead device and two fractured leads after being shocked 15 times for any reason, I would see a different doc and I would go immediately.

I'm guessing it would take a significant shock to damage your device and leads. I hope you got checked out. There have been a lot of people with multiple shocks, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention that their leads fractured because of it. I would probably call the manufacturers of the device and the leads, too. I would replace the fan, too.

I hope you get some answers soon and will share what you learn with us.
Dilated Cardiomyopathy, LBBB, CHF
St. Jude CRT-D 5/12
The beat goes on.....

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DovenaDBickford
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by DovenaDBickford » December 26th, 2014, 5:38 pm

Hello everyone and thanks for your responses. I finally got some sleep after I read the responses this morning and feel a little more together. I'll try not to leave major gaps this time! I did go to the emergency room. My ICD was interrogated and it showed it had fired 15 times and a wire fracture, two wires if I remember what they said correctly. Before all this happened - it had not been long since my ICD was interrogated because I was due a generator change out, but fell ill with the flu and a rough bought with pancreatitis on the heels of the flu so the procedure was cancelled. Each morning I heard the battery low warning, but I've never heard any other warnings coming from the device. (one of the questions I kept trying to ask my dr was if I did get electrocuted and it did all this, what would of happened if my battery had been new instead of being low? Would it of kept firing until it killed me? I didn't get an answer.) I live in an old rental with old outlets. I keep a fan plugged in to pull heat from the bathroom into my son's bedroom. I had washed my hands and was reaching for the towel. Mid route is the outlet where the fan was plugged in. I believe I physically watched electric blue color arc from the outlet to my hand. It hurt. I yelled. Mid-yell all hell started breaking loose with the defib. Fast forwarding again, after my ICD was interrogated (and turned off) in the ER, they wheeled me off to fix things. We get in there, and I've not seen my (new) Dr, I haven't signed any paperwork, and I haven't been able to ask any of my (many) questions. The nurses agreed they'd want to see their dr and get some info too, so I was taken to a telementry (sp?) unit. The (new) Dr came up a couple hours later and in a major rush. He spent less than 3 mins with me. He told me I should of heard an alarm that sounded different than the low battery alarm and chastised me pretty good. When I tried to explain to him I didn't hear any new alarms, he said not to worry, they'd fix everything the next day and I could probably go home the day after that. Then he left. I didn't get to ask any of my questions. I didn't sleep. My chest interior felt like a baked ham, literally. I kept asking the nurses if they knew if any additional permanent damage was done, but nobody knew. I tried to look it up online with my phone, but couldn't find anything that would answer my questions. The next morning one of the nurses volunteered that my bloodwork was not changing. Not knowing anything at all, I asked if there was anything of concern and was told my troponin was holding at 7.41. I asked what acceptable is: .05 I was told. Except nobody told me what troponin means. A bit later they were getting me ready for surgery again, and I demanded to see my (new) dr so I could ask questions. They called him, and he sent a resident who couldn't answer my questions and got very agitated at me. He finally said that the (new) dr had given him instructions to offer me one of two choices. 1) Sign the consent and let's go to surgery. 2) Sign Leaving Against Medical Advice and go home. I signed the LAMA paper and for the reason I wrote "I'm not leaving against medical advice - I'm leaving because my doctor won't answer my questions and he told me I had to leave." So, I'm home. The property manager has an electrician coming by to check the outlet either today or Monday. My old doctor moved to the next town and I stupidly didn't follow his practice when he moved - I have an appointment to see him on Monday and I know he'll take the time to answer a billion questions if that's how many I need to ask to get educated and quell my fears. I did contact Medtronic Patient Services and hope to hear back from them, but doubt it'll be today because of the holidays. I think I have some kind of PTSD thing going on - I won't touch ANY light switches and stay well away from any outlets. I don't want to be alone, not even for a second. I was home alone when all this happened. Everytime I close my eyes to drift off to sleep, I startle awake because I see lightning coming out of my eyes again, even though my brain knows in reality it isn't happening. It sucks to get hit with the defib when I need it, and it sucks to get kicked over and over. It really, really sucks to get kicked when I'm absolutely positive I didn't need it! I hope I answered everyone's questions. If my answers are too garbled, please ask again and I'll try again. Thank you so very much for being here. I'm grateful to talk about getting kicked and things of that sort with people who get it.

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Colin Pearson
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by Colin Pearson » December 26th, 2014, 6:10 pm

An ICD takes about ten seconds to charge before it delivers a shock so I'd say your first shock and the electrocution could have been one of the same.

Have you checked or had the outlet checked since?

Whatever happened, I think you are extremely brave in the way you are getting through this. I'm glad you are ok now.

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Ozchrissy
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by Ozchrissy » December 26th, 2014, 6:29 pm

I don't know what sort of Hospital you went to, but I would find another one and in a hurry. Anything could happen in the next few days, and I certainly would not be sitting at home waiting to find out if I will go into a bad rhythm again. Is there anywhere else you can go, the Dr you saw sounds like an overworked moron, and I do know how you feel about seeing the Registrar, I find that frustrating too, as they really do not know what is happening. To give you the two ultimatums you got was I believe unethical, and as you are in a situation that could prove life threatening I would certainly be looking for a new Hospital where you should receive better management.

This is from Medline Plus about Troponin Levels

"Abnormal Results Mean

Even a slight increase in the troponin level will often mean there has been some damage to the heart. Very high levels of troponin are a sign that a heart attack has occurred.

Most patients who have had a heart attack have increased troponin levels within 6 hours. After 12 hours, almost everyone who has had a heart attack will have raised levels.

Troponin levels may remain high for 1 to 2 weeks after a heart attack.

Increased troponin levels may also be due to:

Abnormally fast heart beat
High blood pressure in lung arteries (pulmonary hypertension)
Blockage of a lung artery by a blood clot, fat, or tumor cells (pulmonary embolus)
Congestive heart failure
Coronary artery spasm
Inflammation of the heart muscle usually due to a virus (myocarditis)
Prolonged exercise (for example, due to marathons or triathlons)
Trauma that injures the heart, such as a car accident
Weakening of the heart muscle (cardiomyopathy)
Long-term kidney disease

Increased troponin levels may also result from certain medical procedures such as:

Cardiac angioplasty/stenting
Heart defibrillation or electrical cardioversion (purposeful shocking of the heart by medical personnel to correct an abnormal heart rhythm)
Open heart surgery
Radiofrequency ablation of the heart"


As a result of this alone, I would not be waiting till Monday to get this resolved.
“I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become.” Carl Jung

Diagnosed with cardiomyopathy in 10/99
LBBB & VT diagnosed Feb 06
Guidant Biventricular Pacer ICD inserted Feb 06: Boston Scientific Incepta CRT-D inserted May, 2012
Oesophageal Cancer, 2012, Gall Bladder & Septicemia 2014 resulting in VFib and severe heart damage
Bare Metal Stent May, 2012 Mitral Valve replaced 2015
Meds: Entresto, Bicard, Coralan, Eurtorxsiq, Frusehexl, Spiractin, Sigmaxin, Creon, Warfarin,
Appropriate Shocks for Ventricular VFib.

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Suzanne
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Re: Hoping someone knows the answer

Post by Suzanne » December 26th, 2014, 8:12 pm

Each morning I heard the battery low warning, but I've never heard any other warnings coming from the device. (one of the questions I kept trying to ask my dr was if I did get electrocuted and it did all this, what would of happened if my battery had been new instead of being low? Would it of kept firing until it killed me? I didn't get an answer.)
I'd say no answer means he didn't know what to answer and couldn't be bothered with your psychological well being.

I live in an old rental with old outlets. I keep a fan plugged in to pull heat from the bathroom into my son's bedroom. I had washed my hands and was reaching for the towel. Mid route is the outlet where the fan was plugged in. I believe I physically watched electric blue color arc from the outlet to my hand.
I'm sure you did.

The (new) Dr came up a couple hours later and in a major rush. He spent less than 3 mins with me. He told me I should of heard an alarm that sounded different than the low battery alarm and chastised me pretty good.
ASSHOLE.

Then he left. I didn't get to ask any of my questions. I didn't sleep. My chest interior felt like a baked ham, literally. I kept asking the nurses if they knew if any additional permanent damage was done, but nobody knew.
Am I surprised "nobody knew"? No, I'm not.

I think I have some kind of PTSD thing going on - I won't touch ANY light switches and stay well away from any outlets. I don't want to be alone, not even for a second. I was home alone when all this happened. Everytime I close my eyes to drift off to sleep, I startle awake because I see lightning coming out of my eyes again, even though my brain knows in reality it isn't happening.
After experiencing what you did, I would be surprised if you didn't have PTSD. To me, the sad part about all of this is that no one bothered to deal with your psychological well being knowing what you just went through. I find it inhumane. Be sure to inform your Doctor when you see him/her on Monday. Get the help you need to help you get through this, not just physically but mentally too.
~ Suzanne ~

St Jude ICD and Lead Implanted Feb.20/09
8 Shock Storm March 21/09
Lead Dislodged, so Replaced with Medtronic Lead June 16/09
ICD and Lead Explanted Nov.23/09
Medtronic Reveal XT (Cardiac Monitor) Implanted Jan.25/10...explanted and new one reinserted on July 21/11

Cardiac Monitor explanted Sept.9/14

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